Talk:Amara/1
Wow. Binadamu is a pretty good leader, but not the greatest father huh? Supahbadmarine 20:56, October 26, 2011 (UTC) I wouldn't say bad father. Binadamu was good father, but as the Amara grew up, as any good parent would do, he and Caria let them decide their course in life. Some where mentally inept such as Ghinjo, while other may have just been born evil, such as Kondo and Ibada. Others were pargons, Xavier and Johnathan were a few. And others simply try to live their lives such as Erick, who wanted nothing to do with the Madora Family (for obvious reasons). Finally, others were the result of tragic mistakes or intentional neglect. So like any family, the Madoras had their ups and downs, though more so than others. Vivaporius 22:15, October 26, 2011 (UTC) {C}"Their powers, however, were not the result genetic modification, but sheer parentage." That made me laugh. Not because its bad or anything, I just pictured it in a funny way. Totalimmortal 04:39, October 27, 2011 (UTC) Say what you will Viva, but a considerable number of his kids have turned bad in a serious way. At least the Emperor had the excuse that Chaos had corrupted his sons, and the fact that he was not there to personally raise them. It seems that deep down all great men have family issues. Supahbadmarine 04:49, October 27, 2011 (UTC) For you Total, while your statement is true, Binadamu and Caria riser their kids to the best of their ability (Xavier was their first child, and they gave him all the love they could muster for him). Idrissa, Kondo, and Kiman, they all chose to become outcasts, and dispute the parents best efforts, they continued to defy the law. Binadamu did his job, what his children did was their own doing. And for Supah, how did you think it was funny? Vivaporius 14:10, October 27, 2011 (UTC) You got that turned around Viva. Supahbadmarine 14:16, October 27, 2011 (UTC) Oh yeah. Remember, there are 40 Amara, and those who became truly evil number about eight at the most. So while is still bad no matter how you look at it, Binadamu has done a rather gold job keeping the others in line. Plus, Binadamu never learned how to become a good parent, since he left Terra when he was 18. Thus, he still had the thoughts and intentions of a immature child, and Caria was no better, as she at least the same age when the two of them meet. So neither were truly equipped to become caretakers. Despite the time they had before they had Xavier, neither any idea on how to raise a child. Vivaporius 14:17, October 27, 2011 (UTC) Turn it around how? Edit: Sorry, I meant Total. Vivaporius 14:18, October 27, 2011 (UTC) Oh I get it now. No no, what I meant was that the Amara weren't created in tubes like the Primarchs, though their parents were heavily modified, the Amara gained all of their powers without the need for genetic tampering. Vivaporius 14:21, October 27, 2011 (UTC) It seems that the Amara are no longer truly immortal. Lets just say, that if they met a C'tan Shard they would be deleted from time. The Shard's have the power to "just fling their adversary backwards through time until they disintegrate". I'd like to see how the Amara can survive that? A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 14:55, October 29, 2011 (UTC) Okay, and let's see what would happen if the Rixari run into multiple C'Tan shards. No Rixari? Vivaporius 15:23, October 29, 2011 (UTC) Okay...but where did this come from (not the shard thing, but the statement you made this morning). Vivaporius 00:36, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Oh yeah, and the Amara are Eternal Warriors (inherited baby!). Vivaporius 00:37, October 30, 2011 (UTC) I'm not sure, I just was reading through your article and saw the bit that stated they were immortal and thought that it was pushing the Canon too far (in fact, NCF really) as no fully immortal creature (Warp Beings are an exception) exists within the Canon. Vortex Grenade ignores Immortal Warrior, Armour Save, Invurverable Saves and all other Special Rules which can be used to avoid death (the reasoning seems to be that if your sucked into the warp nothing can save you). Also, this rule is universal, and even Daemons (yeah, I know, weird right) are removed from play if hit by the weapon. If you aren't protected by a ship, the Warp is lethal to mortals (the exact details are vague, but I assume it would be a rather nasty way to go). A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 00:49, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Daemons? That is weird. I've been searching the web for knowledge of immortality in 40k, and considering that a number of people were immortal (God Emperor, har), I have no idea where this "no immortality" stuff is coming from. But seeing as know more about 40k than I do (and that is cold fact), I will not fill out the details of their immortality until I have more info. Anyway, I'm going to revamp the Xai'athi god stuff, and have three "true" gods, and the others will just be the run-off of the Xai'athi religious beliefs. What do you think? Vivaporius 00:55, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Was just looking through the Apoc rule book and this is what it says about Vortex Grenades in relation to damage: "Don’t even think about making any form of save, vortex isn’t affected by your Eternal Warrior and other special rules either". A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 00:57, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Dang. Sucks to be the guy stuck in one of those. Vivaporius 00:58, October 30, 2011 (UTC) What I mean is this. A being can be Immortal in the sense that: if they avoid an unnatural end (disease; warfare etc) they can live for ever. The Eldar are essentially "Immortal" as are the Necrons in thus respect. However, no (non-warp being) creature exists within the Warhammer 40k setting which is Immortal in the sense that they cannot be killed by anything. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 01:02, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Also, I found this datasheet which lists the stats for a similar (and even more destructive form) of a Vortex weapon: Deathstrike Vortex Missile. This bad boy makes the Vortex Grenade look like fire cracker. (interestingly it used the same wording as in the Apoc book, the writers must be lazy XD). A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 01:13, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Oh yeah, that I know. But that is the point. The Amara are practically unkillable, and that simple defies the Xai'athi's logic. The fact that most of them are evil doesn't make the true any easier to accept. The Amaras' soul can survive the Warp, and contain enough sentience to maintain personality, allowing the others to resurrect their dead sibling. 01:21, October 30, 2011 (UTC) I agree. Being properly immortal is NCF. I have actually been meaning to talk to you about the whole rebirth through nanites thing Viva. Even if there is an explanation that can cover for it, it is just plain tacky. Supahbadmarine 13:23, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Well then tell me tacky how Supah. {C}As for immortality, until there is a rule on WHY they can't be immortal, immortal they shall stay. And unfair how? Fourty immortals aganist trillions, upon trillions of humans. Seems pretty fair to me. And the again, there is no rule on it, just your opinion. I don't mean to be rude, but your trying to get me to accept something that has no canon backing. Vivaporius 15:45, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Makes sense. The Cal put it, the Amara are invincible, which isn't the fact (it just common sense). I hinted that one of the Xai'athi gods may have granted the ability, but that was some time ago. As for be properky immortal, there is no canon backing stating that it is NCF. If you provide proof (and not your "I think or it should", hard core evidence), then I will change it to a more reasonable excuse. ;) Vivaporius 16:16, October 30, 2011 (UTC) I got flamed on the Xai'athi, I got flamed on the Federation, I got flamed on a lot of things. This is just the latest flamefest. But these guys aren't unstoppa le, just hard to kill (really hard). And remember, only about half of them are adults. The others are either teens, kids, and a few just babies (yes, Binadamu and Caria haven't learned a thing). Vivaporius 16:25, October 30, 2011 (UTC) No, no, no, no. I have my limits, and doing something like that would end with me hanging from a tree. I know my place. Vivaporius 16:34, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Well, the wording of the Vortex weapons in game effects is proof that ALL CANON CREATURES can be destroyed by the device. As for immortality within 40k, a fully Immortal (NON CHAOS) being ruins the feel of the setting and has no place in this universe. The whole point of 40k is that everything has it's time. And eventually they will die. The Emperor, the most powerful Human Being in creation to grace the setting, was mortally wounded and had his soul ripped from mortal body. I just can't be bothered arguing with you anymore. You seem to invent a plethora of "reasons" on the spot about "oh well, they can just have their soul plucked from the Warp and reformed into a body by their siblings" I'm sorry, but that is something which only the Chaos Gods can do, with their most devout followers (Tzeentch gave Magnus a new body after his original one was crushed by Russ). You demand physical evidence, and I have given you all I can, but you do not present any evidence to support Immortal beings being Canon. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 17:45, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Before you run off to your room to cry about it, I never stated that the Amara COULD SURVIVE A VORTEX GRENADE. AT ALL. As for a fully immortal, non-Chaos being, it ruins YOUR felling of the 40k universe. And the feeling mutual. Listening to your whining frustates me, and isn't tolarable at all. As for the Emperor, when his pyshical body "died", his soul was for all intensive purposes, stuck in the Warp. That is why he is still "alive". His body serves as an anchor, which is why it is believed that when his body is completely dead, then he might become a new Chaos God. His soul wasn't ripped from anything, it just couldn't remain in his half-dead (98%) body. And that is a fact with proof you can find. And to think I was about to ask if you wanted to create that Rixari kill-team. Vivaporius 18:00, October 30, 2011 (UTC) "But you do not present any evidence to support Immortal beings being Canon". And neither can you. We're even. Vivaporius 18:01, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Okay... I may have over reacted a tad their... well, a lot really, and I'm sorry for that... I will take a more level headed and rational response to your statements. #I like the new edits, although I feel the Arx is a bit over the top. I like how you have emphasised that they fear death to the extreme, and took insane precautions to prolong their existence. #Just after I had pointed out the powers of two Vortex Weapons you stated thusly: "The Amaras' soul can survive the Warp, and contain enough sentience to maintain personality, allowing the others to resurrect their dead sibling." And seeing as the Vortex Grenade/Missile sucks the victim into the raw warp, I thought you were stating that if that happened to an Amara they would still survive. I'm sorry of I misinterpreted the intent of that statement. #What you have said about the Emperor is all apt and accurate. However, that basically means that you are admiting that the Amara are more powerful in the Emperor respects to the ability to consciously remove their souls from the Immaterium (which is no small feat). #I am sorry if all of my recent comments have seemed like whining and whinging, and I admit that I was too critical in some respects. #This may seem more like a philisophical corolation than a discussion about immortality but hear me out. The arguement you are using is similar to Pascal's Wager. That because their is nothing to prove or disprove the existence of fully immortal beings in Warhammer 40k, you have decide that there may as well be a way for them to exist. Wheras, I have taken the opposiste stance of: that because their are no canon examples of fully immortal beings within 40k that none should exist. #I think that you should allow for one or two of the Amara to have been killed before the creation of the Arx. And that it was the realisation that they were not truly immortal, that led them to forge the failsafe device. I also think, that like the Astronomicion, the Arx should have a limited range (and that it does not work within heavily chaos influence areas such as the Eye of Terror and the Maelstorm). Such a device needs limitations and flaws, otherwise it is just bland. A Shadow Before the Dawn My Talk 20:19, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Likewise, I'm sorry for my rude statements. I respect your advice (which is why usually prefer to come to you for help when I make a possibly NCF article). I had long thought of having two of the Amara killed before the creation of the Arx, but the Amara had no enemies before it's creation (as aside from the Eldar, no one could really challenge them unless they were the Emperor or Binadamu). It would add to their story, and how they hate the other species for the death of their siblings, possibly driving them to become murderers. Now, the range of the Arx makes sense. I just came up with it on the fly. Does something between 50-60,000 lightyears make sense? It was based on the technology of the Old Ones, and thus not very efficent yet. The Amara could be in a search for more ways to increase it's efficency, with backlashes (Eldar attempting to destroy as much technology that could be used in the Arx perhaps). The dead Amara cannot remove their soul from the Warp by themselves, and rely on their siblings to do that for them. They negoiated a contract with the Awali death god Samandi to hold on to their souls, until the Amara were able to get it from him. This way, Kondo could be a murderer and not get nommed by Khorne, and likewise with Idrissa and Tzeentch, and Ibada and Slaanesh. The Arx, as mentioned, is like a magnet, it can target the soul of a person, and pull it into the Materium. The primary flaw of the Arx is that it is based on the knowledge of the Old Ones. If a piece is destroyed, it will take millennia to replace. Additionally, the time to find the knowledge or technology to make new additions to the Arx to make it more efficent will take more time than it would to simply make another Arx. Vivaporius 20:33, October 30, 2011 (UTC) Sure, Idrissa could be interested in the search. Ibada and Kondo were be shielded from such influence (though they still feed them, that much is true). Xai'athi still lightyears ahead of humanity's, as they were working with Eldar tech, and their own tech which was based on technolgoy humanity had yet to discover. And likewise, the Xai'athi were making weapons to kill Eldar (prefered enemy), who were obvisously far more advanced than humans. Their death could attributed to a joint effort by the Xai'athi and Humanity to kill one of the Amara who was out to kill humanity for reasons unknown. Humanity was unable to him/her, and requested the help the Xai'athi in the hunt. Binadamu gave the Xai'athi the green light to kill them, and the hunt ended in the deaths of millions on both sides, but ultimately ended in the Amara's death. This allowance by their father let one of their siblings be killed scared the Amara, who went about building the Arx in M18. Vivaporius 20:57, October 30, 2011 (UTC) The powers the Amara inherited were the result of technology beyond what the Emperor had. Additionally, the Amara far older than the Primarchs, in addition to the time they had to hone their skills. They inherited the psychic powers of their parents (both Alpha Plus'), putting them ahead of the Primarchs in the field of psychic control. Idrissa mastered sorcery before Magnus even knew what it was (though for the purpose of avoiding a flame war, I won't go any further into that detail). Also, only Idrissa, Kondo, and Xavier have been stated as being more powerful than the Primarchs, and only because of their age, powers, and battle experience. Finally, as for immortal, I've developed a story explaining why their immortal (I understand immortal water a story down, but it provides an excellent plot device). As far as immortality is concern, I'm only speaking of the ability to live forever, not the ability to survive everything. Only Kishi, Shyama, and Idrissa are truely immortal (daemon princesses, and manifestation of the Warp, hence Idrissa's armor, look at his picture). Vivaporius 00:01, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Viva, the Emperor had knowledge of the technological feats of the Dark Age of Technology, and was a genius. In fact his knowledge was so great that the Adeptus Mechanicus joined him due to believing he may have been the manifestation of the Machine God, the embodiment of all knowledge. To add to this the Primarchs were created using his own superior genetic template. SniperGhost has a valid point. Supahbadmarine 01:26, November 4, 2011 (UTC) The validity has been confirmed. But I must once again point out the fact, that one, I know he had knowledge of the Dark Age technology, and two, the Xai'athi more advanced than humanity even at it's height. The Xai'athi were millions of years humanity (remember they had access to Eldar tech). The humans were advanced, don't get me wrong, and I know that the Emperor was a genius, but the Xai'athi still superceded them in all aspects. Even when the Emperor was in charge of the Imperium, he keep the knowledge of his webway project secret from the Eldar, as they would have steamrolled over him. Likewise, the Imperium wouldn't have been able to conquer the Xai'athi as, they too were superior technologically, but considering the fact the Imperium had access to billion of troops, and the Xai'athi were still reeling from their devesting wars, they covered up their civilization, as already explained. My point is, the Amara were more advanced than the Primarchs in their creations, and unlike the Primarchs, did not rely on their daddy's genes to fight. The Primarchs used their strength (or Mangus' case, his brain), to defeat their opponent. The Amara had been around for millennia (in contrast to the Primarchs' centuries), and knew more about fighting than the Primarchs even did (a plain fact if you read more about the Primarchs). Remember, the Emperor still had his behind almost choked to death by an Ork, Horus got mawed by heretics, and number of Primarchs almost got killed by their enemies. So just having the Emperor's gene doesn't make you a bonified warrior overnight. The Amara had been killing for ages, and know how to fight. Experience beats tube grown babies every time. And remember, not all of the Primarchs were excellent fighter (need I bring up Logar?). Vivaporius 01:40, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Everything you just said screams overpowered. Supahbadmarine 01:44, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Yadda yadda, overpowered, yadda yadda. They the Amara, their supposed to be overpowered, that's why the Xai'athi, Sankari, Rulara, Eldar, and evenone in the galaxy wants them DEAD. Binadamu's a punk, and only allowed the most powerful of the Amara to be killed for reasons that have yet to be explained. The bad Amara are up to something out where the Tyranids are, and have some plan to do dasterdly. The good Amara are doing something else, not quite evil, but equally as dangerous. Their overpowered because they their parents did something stupid. Either way, the Amara are the way they are because their evil. Unlike the Primarchs who fought each other, the Amara worked together (since they were working for something more important than controlling the galaxy). If working together is overpowered, then that explains why the U.S. is collapsing like a house of cards. Forgot to add my sig. Vivaporius 01:56, November 4, 2011 (UTC) I don't care that the Amara are working together. I more concerned with the fact that the Xai'athi and everything associated with them are "Just Better" then everybody else. That is overpowered. Supahbadmarine 01:57, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Okay. *sigh* The Xai'athi not overpowered in the sence you speak of. The Xai'athi in general are simply more powerful the Imperium, but inferior to the Eldar and Necron (actually anyone's inferior to the Necrons). Since your here, I shall clarify the Xai'athi strengths here. 1. The Xai'athi as race are superior to their enemies. They depend on each other strengths to fill their weaknesses. The Awali would get crushed by Chaos in a one-on-one fight, but would step over the Imperium. The Vashti would deal with the Eldar and Daemons piecemeal, but the Orks and Necrons would destroy them. Any other breed required the aid of at least one or two others to back them up in a fight, as Binadamu intended (he was trying to create the perfect race, just did it like a jigsaw puzzle). 2. In terms of technology, the Xai'athi simply play on existing weaknesses on their enemies (Eldar to pariahs, Orks to more dakka, and humans sheer superior tactics). The Vashti handle the Eldar, the Awali handle the Orks, and the Xai'athi in general handle the Imperium. Remember, the Xai'athi is a large refugee state. They harbour billions of other xeno races who have brought their knowledge of their enemies with them. 3. The Akili (larger and more pervasive than the Inquisition), has eyes everywhere. They keep the Xai'athi informed of every little conflict, battle, and hero in the galaxy, preparing them for a possible attack. Before a war is even declared, the Akili has all the knowledge needed to win the war. 4. Most of what is described about the Xai'athi comes from their Core Worlds, the safest place in the galaxy (period). The Core World has access to technology not even the rest of Solaris has. Additionally, unlike the Rim Worlds or the Frontier Regions, the Core Worlds have no idea of the horrors outside of their cradle. They don't even know of the dangers and suffering of the rest of Solaris. Case in point, the Rulara invasions. The Core Worlds weren't even touched, and the rest of the Federation burned in the process. The Core Worlds are to Solaris as Washington is to America. 5. Finally, out of all of the empires of the galaxy, only the Federation has survived the Age of Strife (as many species used the Warp for travel). They weren't a degenerating species like the Eldar, or overtly relient on the need for technology like mankind. The Xai'athi survived their trials, and used that second chance to put down threats before the appear. If that doesn't appese you, then that's on you. Vivaporius 02:15, November 4, 2011 (UTC) It does not appease me, as you put it. All you are doing is giving me clever rationalizations as to why the Xai'athi are better than everybody else. None of what you told me changes the fact that they are overpowered. Supahbadmarine 02:36, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Well, not everything. Only Binadamu and Idrissa have destined in detail, and obvisously they are better, because their in charge. The Xai'ahi have already been explained. The Sankari are xenophobes, and not superior to anyone. The Arati are sheltered, and the Amara leading them seems determined to keep it that way. The only people who seem "better" than others are the Amara. The Xai'athi are not perfect. If a full blown civil war erupted, no one breed would win, and it would destroy Solaris. Binadamu planned everything in a manner in which no one can survive without the help of the other. Vivaporius 02:44, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Perfect or not they are still better off than everybody else in the galaxy, and have a far superior military as a unit. Mind you the Necrons would be the exception, but they were overpowered to begin with, ask anybody. Supahbadmarine 02:47, November 4, 2011 (UTC) The only people who can challenge the Xai'athi technologically are the Eldar. the only people who can challenge the Xai'athi numerically is the Imperium. The Xai'athi do not lead in any one field, but do well in all of them. They appear overpowered because they have no equivalent. The Eldar never stopped their growth because by the time they chose to do something about it, they were thoroughly corrupt. Mankind collapsed, but had been on go terms before their fall. The Xai'athi stil suffer from Ork attacks, but no serious one has erupted since the Third Ork Wars. The Xai'athi have no enemy except the Imperium, who is too occupied with the it's own wars to deal with Solaris. Long story short, Solaris is simply an observer, not a perticentpent. They've had their problems, but things have quiet on their end for some time. Vivaporius 02:53, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Reasons, reasons and more reasons, but overpowered they remain. Supahbadmarine 02:57, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Of course their better off. The Eldar blew themselves up. Nobody cares about the Tau. The Imperium is too big not to avoid. And Chaos wants to kill everything. The Xai'athi are out of the way. They had pimento build up and enjoy their prosperity. They didn't absue anything, and had a smart guy leading them away from ruin, unlike the Emperor who led mankind into ruin. The Xai'athi don't have any stake in galactic affairs, and stay out of everyone's way. The only reason they still a target is because they harbor mutants, xenos, and heretics. Vivaporius 03:00, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Great! So why bother with them? They the most healthy, happy people in the galaxy, and they barely have to deal with any big problems. Is that what you are going for, because I don't think so. You are far better than that Viva Supahbadmarine 03:16, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Okay then, you tell me what I'm going for, and better how? Vivaporius 03:24, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Viva I have great respect for you. You are creative, attentive to detail and have great potential as a writer overall. However I feel like the way you have made the Xai'athi has given you a free pass to do whatever you want with the idea. Right now they are on a pedestal high above all the other races and factions in the galaxy, and the fact that they are peaceful is not good. Think about it. Did you get interested in 40k by the interesting technology and diverse culture? They are certainly lovely parts of the series, but I think you probably got invovled because you loved the epic struggle of mankind for survival and its soul. I think you need to reinvision the Xai'athi to bring them back down to earth. I think that if you did this your natural talent with writing, and fanfiction could really flourish. Supahbadmarine 03:33, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Well if that is the case, then I will modify their story (got to fix the timeline anyway). Vivaporius 03:42, November 4, 2011 (UTC) I will be there to offer my help at any time. We will talk about this more later. TIme for me to catch some Zs. Supahbadmarine 03:44, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Likewise. Vivaporius 03:54, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Ok, im stepping in! OK i''ve been watching everything that has involved the Xai'athi for a real long time now and im going to put in my opinion.'' First of all, Viva,'' I love these guys'' (Xai'athi, etc.) and some aspects of it i truly do consider my favorite parts of the fanon. And no one on this site can possibly deny your talent, throughness, and creativity. A rare sight on some other fanons is a subject this far expanded and this deep into their biology, technology, history, and even mind set. But supa is correct on the matter that they are overpowered. I mean seriously, look at this for a moment and look at it from a neutral perspective... --Oh no Orks are attacking! No problems we'll just use nanites to destroy the spores. --Oh no, the FREAKING TYRANIDS are attacking! No problem, we'll destroy with our super advanced technology and can totally (yes it can, admit it) compete with the Necrons. --Oh no,its Chaos (#*@^ing Chaos!). Not worry we are protected by Gods and are totally have an elaborate series of counter measures against corruption. --Hey looks its the Imperium, the galactic superpower that we make look ridiculasly pathetic in comparison. Pffft them? They're not even a threat. This is one reason why I wanted the Lords of Midnight to reek utter madness in the Federation (the other reason being its fun XD). Give give them a foe who can actually hurt them, make them wake up and smell the blood saturated coffee. Now, I am NOT saying, that these guys must be completely re-envisioned. (Sorry Supah, but truthefully I think that can be taken as a unintentonal insult to an author). Im not even saying they need to be downscaled much. What I AM saying is that these guys need to be more realistic, now before I get trolled and you take that the wrong way, I will very specifically state my intention... The Xai'athi, Solaris, and everything else is indeed overpowered. You have done an excellent job explain their strengths and WHY they are so powerful. But such a powerful faction can totally kick the sanity out of almost every other faction. It just feels like their is nothing that can truly threaten it. Look at the Imperium, they are the most powerful faction in 40k, but they are totally in the process of being screwed on galactic level. The Xai'athi, Solaris, and everything related to them is a great piece of writing that is both in depth and well thought out. These articles only suffer from a common case of over empowerment.'' It does NOT need serious re-invention'', only a deeper series of schisms and problems that prevent from becoming too perfect. Note that Solaris already has this, but they seem to have done nothing to distrupt the balance of power. Sorry for the text wall but his was about a few months worth of pent up opinions. XD Regards -DirgeOfCerberus111 04:10, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Well nice to know. I haven't stated anything about the Tyranids yet, as the Xai'athi haven't encountered them. Nocone knows about the Necon War, and thus have no idea just how much th Vashti suffered. The Ork still ravage Solaris, but I haven't done a good job explaining how (and Elda. Back in their heyday did an even better job keeping the Orks in control). Now, considering scisms, I've always wanted to have the Awali and Vashti at each others throats, but the Xai'athi aren't really like that. I really want another civil war, but the Xai'athi just can't comprehend fighting each other like that (genetically encoded into their minds). I can however have their xeno puppets continuously attempt to break free from Solaris, and the human empire they control fight against them too. As for Chaos, I re-wrote that idea a month or two ago. They protect the Xai'athi just save their souls upon death. A few may be granted daemonhood (like the Nokemono empress), and others may become champions. The Chaos incursions are small as the Akili damages the cultists long before the fighting begins (sort of like the LoM). Of course the Imperium gets bet slot. It's called the Age of Ending for a reason. The numerically smaller Tau bet the Imperium (but only because the Imperial were occupied somewhere else). Now imaigine someone with far greater technology and military experience committed to the fight. Now, as far as the Xai'athi being to peaceful, in their space yes, outside of if no. The Xai'athi have been warring on Imperial worlds in Segmentum Tempestus, with the aim of conquering the systems in the Veiled Region. The only reason I haven't gone into detail is because I don't want to add information that contradicts the canon size of the Imperium (yes I know the irony). Nice to know the Xai'athi without being revisioned. Vivaporius 14:07, November 4, 2011 (UTC) Hey there Viva. I am back from my nap. It wasn't very pleasant because Tzeentch kept whispering into my brain all night. I feel that What Dirge said about the word Re-invision being an unintentional insult was probably right, and I hope that was not how you took it because that was not my goal. I probably could have worded that better. Anyway I have a few ideas for fluff changes that I believe will bring the Xai'athi back down to earth with the rest of us mortals, and improve the article overall. To avoid digression on this page I believe we should move our conversation to the Xai'athi talk page. Supahbadmarine 14:51, November 4, 2011 (UTC) As you stated Sniper he Xai'athi wouldn't have such mastery of Eldar tech. However, that is why the Eldar living in Solaris benefit from it. The Xai'athi have all Eldar technology stored in databases across th Federation, and reverse-engineering as much of it as possible. They haven't been able to successfully copy it, but have been able to replicate their base functions. The Awali nodetubes operate similarly to the webway, but are not as effienct. They use the same properties is their purpose, and that is all. The Xai'athi are building their own network since they can't rebuild th webway, as they don't have the technology. They use devices similar to the soulstone (and the Imperium's cruder soul net), which is used to do pretty much the same thing, but not powerful. I will tone down the Xai'athi's loaner, and hopefully as Supah mentioned, continue he discussion on the Xai'athi talk page. Vivaporius 15:20, November 4, 2011 (UTC) My only complanit is that if these guys were more powerful than the primarchs it would create the hive fleet effect. I would ethier dwindle their numbers or limit thier power. Otherwise, I love them (espicialy Idrissa Madora) Dog of War 21:00, December 7, 2011 (UTC) Well, that's kinda the point. Sorta. They work together sometimes, but other than that, they divided into those who want to help people, those who want to hurt people, and those who just don't care (like Erick and Isadora). Also, only three have been noted as being as powerful as the Primarchs, Kondo, Idrissa, and Xavier. Anyway, nice to know you like them. Vivaporius 21:20, December 7, 2011 (UTC) Technicly, with self ressarection, the Armra are more powerful then primarchs. Prehaps only a few could have this power or create a loop hole. Because I only know one "immortal" guy in 40k is lucius, but he has a loop hole (an eldar wraithlord/wraithguard killing him) Apart from that, two big thumbs up! Dog of War 16:43, December 8, 2011 (UTC) That was intented. I don't expect a guy Erick to rip to flesh from others to live again. Not in his character. Guys like Idrissa and Kumori would gladly do so, and have the knowledge for such. Also, by immortal, I'm they can live forever up the point they killed. Not immortal as in they can't be killed. They've been trying to get around that though. Anyways, thanks for the thumbs up. Vivaporius 17:40, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Kinda like the evles from LOTR? Dog of War 10:29, December 10, 2011 (UTC) Never seen the movie or read the books. [[User:Vivaporius|''Vivaporius says:]]' "I don't need a slogan"''' 14:39, December 10, 2011 (UTC)